Chris Koerner is a serial entrepreneur with a variety of unbelievable experiences below his belt. From promoting Buc-ee’s merchandise on-line to partnering with John McAfee to launch a crypto firm, he describes himself as an “concepts man.”
In actual fact, over the past 15 years, he’s began 75 totally different companies.
However right now he’s right here to speak about one particular facet: social media.
Chris is aware of quite a bit about rising content material and viral advertising and marketing, having expanded his social media following to an unbelievable 820k throughout a number of platforms.
On this interview, he shares his framework, talks about totally different sorts of content material for various platforms, reveals his thought course of behind crafting hooks, and teaches us the right way to get extra followers.
Watch the Full Episode
Chris reveals that began off promoting golf balls as a child, and shares a few of his most original companies. At the moment, he spends his time engaged on three tasks: content material creation, RV components gross sales, and beginning companies with different folks.
He has a variety of expertise rising his following, which he discusses, and he talks particularly about his framework. He talks in regards to the energy of brief type movies, along with his getting on common 600k views and a whole bunch of recent e-newsletter subscribers.
When he dives deeper into the ability of short-form video, he talks about going high-volume, accelerating the educational curve, arising with concepts, and recording on the fly.
He talks about calls-to-action, the worth of podcast downloads vs. e-newsletter subscribers, and long-form content material.
Chris shares his ideas on followers alongside along with his e-mail components, and talks about his findings after sending out his newsletters over the course of a number of years. He talks about the place he will get the majority of his subscribers,
Chris is an knowledgeable at getting new followers, amassing round 10k new ones a day, and his content material will get between 50 and 130 million views monthly. He shares his perspective on posting content material to totally different platforms and the way he customizes his CTAs.
When requested how he decides which platform to put up to, he talks about how he approaches all totally different platforms in addition to the “best” platform to handle.
Jared asks him how he will get so many views, and he presents some nice suggestions, which embrace coaching your algorithm, emulating different creators you admire, studying hooks, and throwing spaghetti on the wall.
Chris admits that he didn’t take into consideration hooks initially and he shares the hook that works for him.
Lastly, he talks about whether or not or not he makes use of scripts.
Hyperlinks & Assets
Subjects Chris Koerner Talks About
His expertise as an entrepreneur
His totally different tasks
An outline of his framework
His ideas on short-form video
Ideation
His method to long-form content material
His e-mail newsletters
Getting subscribers
His month-to-month followers
Utilizing totally different platforms
The best way to decide a platform
His staff and what they do
The trick to getting views
The best way to craft an excellent hook
Scripting
Transcript
Jared: All proper. Welcome again to the area of interest pursuits podcast. My title is Jared Bauman. And right now we’re joined by Chris Kerner. Chris, welcome on board. Thanks for having me. I am excited to be right here. Nice to have you ever. We’re speaking about rising a following right now. Now we might speak about a variety of various things with you.
You have obtained your palms in a variety of various things, quite a bit occurring. We narrowed in on this one subject as a result of we thought this was perhaps the most effective factor for our listeners to listen to. However earlier than we get into these particulars. Give us some backstory on who you might be. You bought your palms on a variety of issues. You bought a variety of profitable companies you are working with.
Inform us about who you might be.
Chris: Yeah. Excessive stage. Uh, grew up in Utah and Florida. Um, I have been a serial entrepreneur my complete life. I used to promote golf balls as a child, stay throughout the road from a golf course and grew up type of poor, decrease center class ish, and so I simply type of needed to be scrappy to save lots of up for a yearbook or a discipline journey.
Uh, and that by no means left me. So I, I served a mission for my church from 19 to 21 in Japanese Europe. And that gave me the motivation that I by no means actually had earlier than. I got here again appreciative of America and able to simply, you recognize, take capitalism by the horns. And so I, I obtained married to my highschool sweetheart.
Uh, we went to the college of Alabama collectively and I simply began beginning every kind of companies. And so. During the last 15 years, I’ve began like about 75 companies. Um, and. It is simply an dependancy at this level. I simply like it.
Jared: That is I did not know you began that many. That’s a variety of companies.
Um, perhaps give us a number of excessive ranges of like your favourite ones or those that you are the most happy with, or, you recognize, those you are concerned within the longest.
Chris: Yeah, I had the longest stint was, uh, an organization that remanufactured damaged iPhone screens. So we’d go to iPhone restore retailers. Purchase again their damaged screens, um, ship them to China to get new glass on them.
After which we might promote them wholesale. Uh, did that for seven years. That was a variety of enjoyable. Um, and considered one of my companies that I personal right now, which is type of a cool story. We resell Bucky’s merchandise. Bucky’s is a small chain of fuel stations, very distinctive model. And we type of, we pulled a viral advertising and marketing stunt trigger they weren’t promoting on-line.
We began promoting on-line for them. Um, and now we, we have now a Shopify retailer and we do tens of hundreds of orders a yr.
Jared: That is
Chris: phenomenal.
Jared: That is nice. Um, what are you concerned with right now? Like what does your, you recognize, excessive stage enterprise appear to be at this level?
Chris: Yeah, I, I type of break up my time into three buckets.
I’ve, um, content material. Uh, which takes a couple of third of my time. After which I put money into RV and cellular dwelling parks with some companions. I haven’t got an operational function, however I assist discover them. After which I assist elevate cash for them. After which the third factor I do is begin companies. I’ve a model known as co founders and we discover working companions and it is not an incubator.
It is not a pure holdco. It is not a VC. It is type of our personal factor. It is my technique to get concepts out of my head. Uh, and. Launch them with, with companions after which maintain them perpetually.
Jared: Superior. Nicely, we’re speaking right now about, um, about rising a following and, um, you recognize, you have achieved this, I am going to say again and again, um, however perhaps kick us off to this subject right now, set the stage for what we’ll speak about.
We’ll get actually detailed. You have obtained a very well outlined technique for it, however give us the excessive stage. Um, and body out our dialog right here.
Chris: Okay. So I have been like doing a variety of copywriting since I first began a enterprise. Um, it was by no means something intentional. I by no means took a copywriting course, however I simply love writing.
My mother’s a author. Um, and I like sending advertising and marketing emails, whether or not it is a chilly e-mail or a mass e-mail. Uh, and so I began writing on Fb, like in, you recognize, late 2000s, early 2010s and on Quora. Simply answering enterprise questions there. Um, after which 2017, I began writing on Twitter, um, like lengthy type enterprise stuff, case examine, stuff, crypto stuff.
Um, after which, uh, a few years in the past, I began writing strategically on Twitter to actually begin to develop an viewers after which, uh, 10 months in the past, I began a podcast after which I went to love brief type and lengthy type video so I might promote the podcast and, after which every thing simply type of blew up from there.
Jared: The, um, you could have a selected framework for it as a method that you simply go about. Let’s begin with that. I am going to allow you to type of share it. Trigger I believe it is actually attention-grabbing. It is clear simply from what you have already shared that there is, there’s fairly a Whether or not it is accidentally or by design, there’s fairly an method you are taking that type of systematically follows.
Um, the, the, the motion earlier than it, let’s get into the technique that you simply shared within the present notes. After which we’ll, we’ll go from there into a number of the questions I’ve.
Chris: Yeah, so it began is rather like every thing how every thing begins for me and I am simply curious and I type of have this this poisonous trait the place I get actually interested in one thing after which actually impatient about one thing after which 15 years later, I’ve all these companies.
I simply I am unable to sit on an concept. You realize, I simply, I, it is bodily unimaginable for me. So the identical is true with content material to me. Content material is like one other enterprise. Um, and so I, I am at all times type of throwing spaghetti on the wall, simply attempting new codecs, let’s attempt brief type, let’s attempt lengthy type, let’s attempt the sort of phase, let’s attempt faceless or with my face, or let’s attempt a enterprise concept, or let’s profile an proprietor.
And I am at all times simply type of watching the info and seeing the place it goes after which leaning into what works. Um, And so the, the true turning level for me was when, as you stated, I, I lastly put a method to all this spaghetti that I would thrown on the wall and in a quite simple means, it is brief type video results in lengthy type audio written or video results in, to be decided.
Trigger I do not actually monetize but. I am not in a rush to, however I simply know that having an viewers is sweet to have. So I am attempting to play the lengthy sport. Why brief type video first? It appears very purposeful. It’s now. Um, I would like to say that was the plan from all alongside, however I’ve like, I am an introvert in truth, and I would a lot reasonably simply sit right here in my workplace all day.
By no means take calls. Simply put my head down in my Mac e-book and simply development hack stuff. Proper. And I am not. I like simply writing, placing my ideas out to the, to the world. And I’ve at all times stated like, I might by no means do brief type. I’ll by no means do brief type type like that is too cringe. I am unable to even think about myself like holding my cellphone.
I simply, I am unable to do it. Um, after which once I created the account, it was solely to advertise the podcast. It is like, all proper, I am going to use AI to auto generate clips from the podcast and I am going to add them and, and we’ll develop it. Um, and I’ve since discovered that does not work very nicely. It is actually laborious to develop a podcast with simply auto generated clips.
And so I began taking unique shorts about stuff that I write about. Like, take a look at this enterprise concept. Try this enterprise concept. Try this enterprise. I began, here is what I discovered. It is a enterprise partnership that went dangerous. This is what I discovered from that. Um, and that basically, actually, um, began doing nicely.
And so why brief type it is the very best leverage. I I am going to spend 5 to 10 minutes, uh, taking like finish to finish ideating, considering type of roughly scripting, taking the video. 5 to 10 minutes. I am achieved. I add it to my assistant. Takes her a half hour to edit and I am achieved. And that video will get me, um, on common, my shorts get about 600, 000 views they usually deliver 50 to 500 e-newsletter subscribers from 5 minutes of labor.
Jared: How do you ideate across the subjects for brief type video? And by the best way, I wish to, I wish to name out as a result of I believe lots of people listening are in all probability extra accustomed to producing lengthy type content material, similar to you stated you have been. And so the, the bounce to brief type, it perhaps sounds simple. After which while you roll up your sleeves, you are like, Oh my goodness, that is completely totally different than creating lengthy type content material.
So how do you ideate round that? How have you ever discovered what works? What sort of components do you discover works nicely for this brief type content material method?
Chris: Nicely, you do not know what works till you simply, you bought to go excessive quantity. Um, that is a power and a weak point of mine. I’ve no consideration to element.
Like simply for example, I used to be in church final Sunday and my pal carried out a musical quantity and I wasn’t on my cellphone. I used to be simply watching. After which 10 minutes later, I went to my son and I am like, Hey, why did not, why did not he go up? I see on this system, he was imagined to go up and he is like, daddy. He went such as you have been observing him.
And like, I used to be simply so in my head, I’ve no consideration to element and I am the alternative of a perfectionist. Uh, and in brief type video that advantages me as a result of some folks overthink it. It is like, Oh, I obtained to get the hook, proper? Oh, the lighting is not good. Oh. Oh. And like, I simply do not care. I simply hit publish, proper?
While you do this, you speed up the educational curve, proper? I can put out 5 movies in a day, spend a half hour on them collectively. And I’ve a lot knowledge than the 5 I put out the following day may do 4 instances as nicely. After which 4 instances as nicely the following day after that, whereas lots of people, they only, um, I’ll analysis some extra.
I obtained to script this out the hook. I’ll do analysis on hooks. Then I’ll analysis on retention. I’ll study charts. I’ll similar to ship it. Simply get it on the market.
Jared: What are the, what, like while you, in case you’re doing 5 a day, what do you, what do you, how are you arising with these concepts?
What? Is the underpinning of what you are going to make 5 movies a couple of day?
Chris: Two sources. So primary, um, my lengthy type content material, most of it facilities round enterprise concepts. And so I am going to have recurring friends on, and we’re each concept machines and we cannot have any script. We cannot have something. We’ll simply begin speaking and it type of begins out sluggish.
After which it will get, we get going, we get going, we get excited. We give you all these concepts and that is like 10 shorts price of content material proper there that I am simply, and as soon as once more, I am not clipping these with AI. Then I’ll pull out my cellphone 10 instances and make 10 shorts speaking about what I already talked about that time again to that podcast.
Proper? In order that’s one bucket. The second bucket is Coming from the identical platforms the place I am posting these, I am going to go on Instagram and I’ll practice the algorithm to my liking. So that you and I, any human, we have now totally different tastes. I like extremely marathons. I like Theo Vaughn. I like cooking pizza in my out of doors oven.
And I like enterprise once I’m logged in on this Instagram account. If Theo von pops up, I’ll swipe away as quick as I can. Proper. If a pizza oven video comes up, Nope, not liking it. Not watching it. I am simply telling the algorithm. Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope. Enterprise concept comes up like remark, bookmark. Cool.
And I am simply telling the algorithm, that is what I would like. That is what I would like. That is what I would like. After which if I wish to loosen up, I am going to a distinct Instagram account and watch the Alfon, proper? In order that trains the algorithm to indicate me stuff that I can hopefully add worth to. I see one thing attention-grabbing at e-book market, e-book market, e-book market.
After which on Monday mornings, I put aside one to 2 hours. I am going by way of my bookmarks. I am going to watch a video and I am going to say, okay. And like, that is like, That is a complete nother dialog, however that performs into the argument of focus versus not focus due to the truth that I do not focus I will simply and shortly cross reference issues.
So I am going to see a shortens like oh, yeah, this that is it growth After which okay, obtained it. Pull out my cellphone hit report. No script. No teleprompter I simply type of pause as I might consider my Anna that I’ve my hook pause assume pause assume Add to my editor. She takes out the pauses and edits it.
Jared: So some ways brief type video for you is ideal as a result of it is not overly scripted.
It is not overly, it’s a medium, virtually prefers an unscripted fast, uh, fast take method, which just about mirrors your character and the best way you take a look at enterprise. And, uh, the best way he described content material gathering, it is virtually like your personal, you are your personal private RSS feed, proper? Like. Create as an alternative of the olden days of RSS feeds, the place we truly would simply get that every one fed into one repository.
You are virtually going out and creating and virtually tailoring every platform and every dialog with different enterprise homeowners and different folks to provide you all these concepts to create content material on.
Chris: Yeah, precisely.
Jared: How does the funneling work? You talked about the way you’re doing brief type video to advertise your podcast.
You additionally talked about it generates a variety of e-mail subscribers for you. I is perhaps a very detailed query, however I believe it is one which lots of people listening might need. How do you information folks to an e-mail checklist on brief type video content material while you’re truly type of underpinning your podcast on the similar time?
Chris: Yeah, good query. So I’ve, I’ve bounced forwards and backwards between the 2. So over the autumn I, I might put a name to motion in my podcast on the finish of each brief, I’ll by no means, ever, ever publish a brief with out a name to motion. And I do not, frankly, I do not perceive why anybody does, you recognize, and I do know the argument it is, nicely, I’ve a name to motion.
Then the engagement or the attain will not be as excessive trigger it is, it is a gross sales pitch. Even when the decision to motion is comply with me, comply with me. It is a gross sales pitch and the algorithm will suppress it. Uh, no, like you are able to do it proper. Like it may well’t be a 5 second name to motion, however a two second name to motion on the finish on a 50 second video, you recognize, in the event that they watch the entire thing, even when they skip out within the final two seconds, you continue to have 95 % retention, proper?
So I’ll put a name to motion on the finish of each single video. Generally simply to comply with me virtually each time. Both to hearken to the podcast or to subscribe to my e-newsletter. So over the autumn, it was at all times, you recognize, take a look at my podcast, um, on the very finish and my podcast grew and it was superior. Um, however I wasn’t getting any e-newsletter subscribers and I worth a subscriber greater than a podcast listener or obtain.
And so within the final couple of months. I push every thing to the identical touchdown web page after which they fall into my e-newsletter and there I speak in regards to the podcast. Now, you recognize, an excellent click on by way of price is 5%. And so theoretically, even when I solely push my podcast, then my podcast goes to develop considerably much less as a result of solely 5 % of these subscribers will ever click on to my podcast.
However internet of internet. I would a lot reasonably have a e-newsletter subscriber that opens even when they don’t seem to be clicking, then a loyal, um, podcast
Jared: obtain. That is smart. Okay. That, that, that, that clarifies it a bit. So does lengthy type content material come into play in any respect in your present technique to develop
Chris: extra followers? Yeah. For my part, if I am unable to get anybody from brief type content material to lengthy type content material, then it is a waste.
Like I am, everybody loves dopamine. I am no exception, however I am not within the consideration sport. Proper? Like there are people who have hundreds of thousands of followers they usually similar to the dopamine and perhaps they’re going to do an affiliate deal and, however like, that is not me. I, I, I go browsing to Instagram for enterprise and I wish to push folks down the funnel.
Finish of story. And so statistically talking, over 90 % of my brief type viewers, perhaps 99 % won’t ever go anyplace. They will keep in that a part of the funnel. Um, as a result of if I get a, if I get a brief that will get one million views, that can in all probability deliver me. 200 subscribers, fraction of a %. So tiny, however that is okay.
After which of these 200 subscribers. Perhaps two of them purchase one thing from me, however that is okay. If I could make a brief in 5 minutes and I am, I’ve a backlog, a whole bunch of movies deep, then I simply, I preserve pumping out shorts.
Jared: I believe it is actually good for folks to listen to as a result of any person who begins out on shorts and perhaps will get, you recognize, Has their, has considered one of their movies, you recognize, do nicely for a beginning account.
Perhaps it will get 25, 000 views, 30, 000 views. They usually look they usually’re like, I did not get a single subscriber. And that was my finest performing video of the week. This is not going to work. I imply, you are sharing like, Hey, I am going to do it. I am going to get one million, one million views and get 200 subscribers. Proper. And so there actually is a quantity sport at play the place it’s a must to proceed to supply this at quantity and at scale so as to construct a snowball impact to get the subscribers.
Chris: However I’ll say. The million view to 200 subscribers. I am speaking about e-mail subscribers. E-mail. Yeah. Whereas one million views to Instagram followers, it is in all probability like 5, 000 or two to five, 000, which is critical. Now there’s two faculties of thought. A number of good folks say followers do not matter anymore.
Subscribers do not matter. It is all algorithmically pushed. You realize, the for you web page is simply going to push it, whether or not you could have followers or not. That is true to an extent, proper? But when, in case you go take a look at any influencer enterprise or in any other case that has, for example one million followers, they might put up a video of them farting or simply doing one thing silly, and it’ll get 50 to 100 thousand views, proper?
Which is 5 to 10 % of their follower base. Uh, or they might put up one thing actually excessive worth and it might get 30 million views. And so the extra followers you could have, the decrease your flooring will get, the decrease your, the upper your baseline will get. Uh, so it is not completely true. And I’ve AB examined it. I’ve shadow accounts, two followers, uh, and I am going to take previous viral content material.
That is the algorithm has confirmed has blessed that that is good and I am going to put up it there and it is crickets, proper? So followers do matter. Prefer it’s, it is extra knowledge factors for the algorithm to work with. Does that make sense?
Jared: Yeah. No, it does. It does. And it is also proof there’s a couple of metric to judge success on the subject of stuff like this.
You realize, you possibly can, you will get followers and subscribers. You may as well get extra podcast downloads and it feels like you could have a variety of other ways to succeed with each single brief type video you produce. What are your emails like? Uh, it sounds such as you’re funneling folks to your e-mail. Nicely, clearly it does not sound like that.
You clearly are. What are your, what are your emails like? Um, and once more, simply from a excessive stage, like frequency, um, uh, brief versus lengthy. Um, you recognize, you by no means publish a video with out a name to motion. Maybe your emails are related. How, how is the construction made up? Discuss to us about your e-mail.
Chris: My emails are.
Usually 1000 to 3000 phrases as soon as per week, each single time, as soon as per week. Um, my name to motion in my e-mail is I am probably the most conservative, like probably the most protecting of my e-mail checklist. Like once I promote to them sooner or later, it’ll be very calculated. And it is not simply going to be a one off affiliate hyperlink, or it’ll be after a variety of analysis, proper?
I take their e-mail deal with very significantly. So, however you recognize, there are a number of kinds of calls to motion. I, I, I requested them to share it. I’ve a referral program. Um, I’ve polls and each single e-mail. So on the finish of the e-mail, I understand how nicely they preferred it or not. And that tells me what to double down on.
Uh, or I’ll, I am going to use chat GPT to generate say 50. Industries. I am going to say, you recognize, give me 50 area of interest dwelling service industries which can be rising in recognition proper now, stress washing, gutter cleansing, yada, yada, yada. I am going to put these in a sort type and on the prime of my e-newsletter, I am going to say, Hey, what do you wish to study?
This is 50 choices. You may vote on as much as 10 of them. Um, after which a whole bunch of individuals will vote. After which positive sufficient, bounce homes proper on the prime. And you recognize, up till a month in the past, it is like, Oh, I believe concrete leveling is cool. Let’s interview a concrete leveling man. And no, like now I say to you, inform me what’s cool as a result of I genuinely love All of them.
Like I am not sacrificing any mental integrity as a result of I simply love enterprise. I like commerce. Proper? So my name to motion from them right now is like, let’s get some knowledge from you. So I do know what to place on the market, however I am not, I haven’t got any advertisements in it and I am not promoting something overtly and I haven’t got a paid e-newsletter.
It is solely free.
Jared: It is solely free. What’s the purpose for the e-newsletter then from a excessive stage? I imply, that may be a query that I am positive you could have a solution to, however what’s the objective of the e-mail e-newsletter in your total model? That is an excellent
Chris: query. I, I am truthfully, um, I am completely high-quality taking part in the lengthy, lengthy, lengthy sport.
Um, I haven’t got to monetize it anytime quickly. Um, however I’ll, like, I am going to in all probability have a paid model sooner or later. Um, I am going to in all probability have a group sooner or later. I do know I’ll do advertisements sooner or later. Um, I’ve achieved affiliate hyperlinks, so I’ve monetized in type of a sneaky means utilizing issues that I truly use and, and endorse.
Um, however that is not even significant income. Um, the, the purpose is to, is due to the truth that I am vertically built-in. Proper. I’ve an incubator. I begin companies. We’re beginning a advertising and marketing company right here quickly, and I shall be promoting issues, um, to the e-newsletter. I simply, I am on version like 64 now. So it has been 64 weeks.
Um, and I’ve by no means actually. Uh, offered something to them but.
Jared: What sort of, um, what sort of, uh, any tricks to share that you have discovered from sending feels like 64 weekly emails? Like what are some methods you have picked up alongside the best way or some attention-grabbing findings you have had that perhaps you did not count on while you began off?
Chris: Yeah. So, you recognize, just like the, the midwit meme the place it has just like the distribution curve, you have obtained the man on one facet and the man on the opposite facet, like I am, as a lot as I hop round from factor to factor. E-mail has been a relentless. I am obsessive about e-mail. I like e-mail. And I really feel prefer it’s one of many issues I am, I am good at.
Whereas a variety of issues I am okay at, you recognize, um, the center of that midwit meme for e-mail is like, what time of the day are you going to ship? What’s your topic line? Nicely, what number of phrases, what’s your hook? Yada, yada, yada. And like, The extra I study, the extra you could have a loyal viewers, the much less that stuff issues.
Um, my topic line breaks each rule within the e-book and I do not do it in my different companies. Um, my topic line is e-newsletter quantity, like hashtag 0 0 0 6, Um, that is my topic line after which each week it, you recognize, increments of 1 after which my preview textual content shall be lower than three phrases, simply one thing that talks in regards to the e-mail and I’ve had a bunch of individuals say, Hey, you are not optimizing your e-mail like I’ve an company.
I might promote you X, Y or Z your topic and I am like, I’ve a B examined it. I actually have. I did it the primary week and my opening line was type of a joke. It is like, I’ll, I’ll have this article till the day I die. And that is version primary. And I am so optimistic I’ll make it six digits.
Um, so it is simply type of a joke that I by no means stopped taking part in. And now like nobody even is aware of why, however I’ve AB examined it and the e-newsletter hashtag at all times wins. And in order that type of breaks each rule. However then with my e commerce enterprise, I might by no means do this. Um, my topic strains are optimized and I AB take a look at it.
Um, however one factor I’ve observed is shorter is like at all times higher, shorter topic line, three phrases or much less. I do not care what it’s. If it unsure, shorter is best. Um, And so in some methods, like I am actually maniacal about knowledge. In some methods, I am not ship time. It is each time I get round to writing it or sending it, I do not schedule something.
Um, however I, I’m very maniacal about segmentation. So I do know if a subscriber got here from Instagram, Tik TOK threads, YouTube group. My pinned YouTube remark, my YouTube description. I’ve all these segmented in a different way and I monitor the open click on and unsubscribe charges between all of them. Um, and it simply tells me which platforms have probably the most loyal subscribers, which platforms do I actually need to lean into to get extra e-newsletter subscribers?
And that is been actually useful.
Jared: Which platform does have the most effective subscribers?
Chris: So it’s the one that everybody’s moved on from, like, we’re all achieved with Fb, Fb. That is what I used to be going to say. Fb is like, Hey, I am nonetheless right here. We’re doing nice. Um, we’re doing simply high-quality. And they’re the one platform the place you possibly can, nicely, exterior of YouTube, they’re out of Instagram, Fb reels or, and YouTube shorts.
It is the one one the place you possibly can pin a remark that has a, like a blue clickable hyperlink in it. And that’s extremely precious.
Jared: How attention-grabbing that the unique platform that began suppressing natural development and never wanting folks to maneuver off their platform is the one that you simply say creates probably the most loyal followers and permits folks to maneuver from Fb to your e-mail checklist.
Chris: And it is, it is excellent as a result of I get probably the most subscribers from Fb they usually’re probably the most loyal. Um, and I am not likely competing of their inbox for a lot. I’ve had a number of subscribers inform me, I do not even know what an e-mail e-newsletter was, you recognize, like they subscribed to mattress, bathtub and beyonds mailing checklist or, you recognize, no matter.
However they’re like, in case you’re on Twitter, like newsletters are a bubble, prefer it’s about to burst that they are oversaturated, however that is like 1 % of the true world. Newsletters are usually not a factor like on Important Avenue, so to talk.
Jared: So what is that this technique? What perhaps give us some numbers, in case you might, round what this method, this excessive stage method, you recognize, brief type content material, Podcast e-mail e-newsletter.
Like what sort of followers are you gaining on a month-to-month foundation proper now?
Chris: I, I’ve like two KPIs that I monitor one is a views per follower. And that helps me know the way nicely my calls to motion are doing. Um, and I monitor followers throughout platforms. Um, so I simply add all of them up cumulatively and monitor them on a day by day, weekly, month-to-month, yearly foundation.
So views per follower. And that is at about 300 give or take. Um, and that is common. Um, each 300 people who sees one thing that I do will hit comply with or subscribe or no matter. Um, after which the opposite one is followers per day, FPD aggregated throughout platforms. And I have been averaging eight to 11, 000, um, followers per day.
So final month I added 270, 000, which was. It was a report bump.
Jared: That’s a variety of followers. That’s loopy. After which while you translate that into views, in case you’re getting over 10, 000 new followers a day and it takes 300 views to get a follower, then that signifies that there are such a lot of views occurring every day, I might think about.
Chris: Yeah, yeah, I, I normally get between 50 and 130 million views a month. Most of these brief type. I want they have been lengthy
Jared: type, however most are brief. So that you’re getting brief type content material up there. I heard you speak about Instagram. Are you publishing the identical brief type content material throughout quite a few platforms? And the way does that work?
As a result of each platform is a bit totally different in how You realize, you tweak it, how you’re employed it, the way it responds to it, how folks interact with it, et cetera.
Chris: Yeah. It is so attention-grabbing. Trigger there’s this lady named Jenny Hoyos. Have you ever heard of her? Yeah. Yeah. She’s just like the shorts King and he or she preaches that, um, everybody’s completely totally different.
She has a really comparatively small Instagram following and an enormous YouTube following similar movies. Um, and so I took that to coronary heart, however one factor I’ve observed is in a means, they’re all the identical as a result of all of them simply need one factor. Like all of them need a bunch of stuff, however on the finish of the day, they need retention, proper?
In case your factor retains them on, retains customers on their app longer, they are going to push it to extra folks after which extra after which extra after which extra, they usually’ll preserve testing it and testing it till folks do not care about it anymore. Um, YouTube. In my expertise is the toughest to go viral, however it’s going to keep viral the longest.
It’s the most evergreen, proper? So what I used to do was I might have like a 3 to 4 second name to motion exterior of YouTube, after which a very fast name to motion on YouTube. As a result of. TOK are the one platforms that can present you a retention chart of your shorts. Um, and I might simply see it fall off a cliff on YouTube.
Um, whereas on Instagram, I do not know trigger they do not present me. Proper. However now I simply have a lightning quick name to motion throughout all platforms. And the one factor I alter on the calls to motion are what the onscreen textual content is. So Fb, it is prime hyperlink, you recognize, hit the pin touch upon Instagram It is. After which on YouTube, it is the URL of my touchdown web page, which is six letters, simple to spell, simple to learn as a result of they must sort it in and it is a variety of friction.
Um, so I do customise my calls to motion per video, however simply on the onscreen web page. Textual content name to motion, however each video in any other case is the very same, similar period, similar hook, similar every thing. And, um, I am rising, I am not rising equally quick on all platforms. I am nonetheless rising very well on all platforms with that technique.
Jared: I do know this can be a troublesome query to reply, uh, which is at all times laborious while you hear that. You are like, nicely, then why are you asking me? I am attempting to, I am desirous about the listener proper now who’s attempting to determine perhaps which platform works finest for the kind of content material they’re, they’re making. Um, I suppose the primary query of a two half is, do you advocate going to all platforms such as you’re doing Fb, Instagram, Twitter, Tik TOK, YouTube, and have you ever discovered sure platforms work higher for sure kinds of content material?
If somebody is attempting to determine.
Chris: I’ve, however, um, Oh, I even have my assistant wanting into that proper now, wish to what it’s. Trigger like I’ve observed anecdotally dwelling service enterprise concepts do very well on Fb. Um, they do not do nicely on Tik TOK. And my assumption is as a result of Tik TOK could be very worldwide and, you recognize, a concrete leveling enterprise doesn’t apply in Estonia.
You realize, only for no matter purpose. Um, however usually talking of this, one other technique I exploit, I’ll put up to tick tock first, uh, trigger I care the least about tick tock, but it surely exhibits me a retention chart. So I am going to put up a tick tock and wait an hour and take a look at the retention chart. And if I’ve, um, at the least half of % of viewers following me.
I do know it is a thumbs up. If I, if persons are watching on common, 40 % of my video, I do know it is a thumbs up if I see these issues. I am going to put up as is to the opposite platforms. If I do not, um, then I am going to both, nicely, some, I used to not put up stuff, however now I simply put up every thing. I’ll usually lower one thing.
There’s virtually by no means one thing so as to add. There’s virtually at all times one thing to chop. So I am going to take a look at the retention charts. Like, Oh yeah, they’re dropping off at this sentence and that is in all probability distracting. And I am simply guessing. I do not actually know. Proper. Or that sentence does not actually add any worth to the purpose of the general video.
So let me simply lower that out altogether after which let’s put up all over the place. Um, usually talking, if a video takes off within the first take a look at on tick tock, it’ll take off all over the place usually, however typically it will solely YouTube and nowhere else, or solely go viral on Instagram and nowhere else. However that is fairly uncommon.
Jared: Which one is the best for you and your staff to handle by way of The general means of getting content material stay on it, managing perhaps feedback or every other kinds of interactions is one that you simply discovered at scale, simpler to work with.
Chris: Oh, nicely, um, Instagram and Fb are good as a result of you need to use many chat automations at hand, to deal with a variety of stuff, however truthfully, there are, I do not add myself anymore.
Um, they’re all about the identical. Okay. Um, they are surely. It is. Logistically talking, it is It is annoying that it’s a must to go away just like the app open on TOK while you’re importing a video. Uh, however aside from that, it does not actually make a distinction. We, we have now observed, um, an enormous distinction in cross posting. We do not cross put up something.
Like we do not use any automations. We do not use any, like additionally publish the threads additionally revealed to Fb. I heard like anecdotally that. Your attain shall be suppressed in case you do this. Um, however I assumed, you recognize what? There isn’t any means as a result of the platforms simply need you to maintain customers on the platform. And why would it not matter?
You realize, if it is viral, why would they care? It issues. I am right here to inform you it issues. So I used to auto publish to Fb reels, simply with the toggle change inside Instagram. Um, and I by no means, ever as soon as had a Fb reel outpace an Instagram reel, not even as soon as. After which I finished doing that. And we did it the tougher means.
I say tougher in quotations since you’re simply importing a video. Um, and now I routinely have In actual fact, perhaps even on common, my Fb reels do higher than my Instagram reels, regardless that I’ve half as many followers over there.
Jared: That is actually good suggestions. That is actually excellent news. Um, yeah, we, we, we would like the shortcut.
Chris: We would like just like the, the panacea or the silver bullet and like, Oh, this one cool instrument is just 9 99 a month. And I add every thing and it simply pushes it out or opus. ai. I can simply add my podcast and we’ll spit out 30 clips. After which I can use this Zapier integration to add the 30 clips all over the place.
After which. I’ll have the regulation of huge numbers, 10 % will go viral. I am sorry. Like, I am simply sorry. It is not simple. It does not work. Yeah. No. The tougher means is normally the higher means. And that is an excellent framework only for life.
Jared: Nicely, you talked about you are not importing your self anymore, which is an efficient segue right into a query I’ve on my agenda right here.
I am going to ask it now. What does your staff appear to be? Um, it sounds prefer it’s not simply you now. So what’s it? What does it appear to be? Who does what? How large is it? So I,
Chris: I, I might take into account it a fairly small staff primarily based on people who I’ve talked to, however I’ve a digital assistant, um, Within the Philippines that she’s like my proper hand girl, so to talk, she’s in my pinned.
I message. I made positive she has an iPhone and he or she in all probability works 60 hours per week and he or she edits all my movies. She posts all my movies. She takes my lengthy type written content material. And manually cross posts, posts all over the place. I’ve this grasp Google sheet the place she tracks all of my numbers. Each Monday she updates them first of the month.
She updates them from the prior month. She’s like my most key individual. After which I’ve a thumbnail man, um, that I break up with my enterprise companion as a result of he places out a variety of content material too. He is actually, actually good. He is in Turkey. Um, after which I’ve, uh, an editor. Uh, title Mohamed, he is actually good and he is in, um, I believe India after which I’ve a, like a, an administrative assistant in Spain that simply helps with random stuff.
Um, so my administrative assistant and my thumbnail man and my editor. I actually solely use half of I share them with my companion after which my content material supervisor, um, she works 60 hours per week, so
Jared: I might agree. Yeah, fairly small given the least to type of comply with ship following or follower numbers you are producing and the quantity of content material you are producing.
That is nice. Um, uh, I suppose in all probability the elephant within the room for lots of people proper now. So I am simply gonna ask the query. The quantity of views. And thus followers you are driving. It simply appears insane. Given the best way you speak about the way you create content material, given the best way you speak about the way you create concepts and like, what different suggestions are you able to share?
As a result of these numbers simply appear so unapproachable in so some ways. And. Your technique, I do not wish to say it is easy, but it surely’s very efficient. And I am simply, what different issues are you able to buckle down and simply dig into that can enable somebody listening who has been scuffling with gaining a followership who has been perhaps dabbling in brief type content material or writing lengthy emails or no matter it’s they’re selecting, however they’re struggling to get greater than two or three followers a day.
Chris: Nice query. Um, so I might begin by coaching your algorithm. Like I stated, have a separate, I might simply begin on Instagram trigger it is labored nice for me. Um, I am positive you possibly can do the identical on every other platform. I might begin on Instagram and no matter area of interest you are in, for example you are, you, you promote a pet toys on e commerce.
I might begin. On Instagram coaching, the algorithm to indicate you, uh, rivals or householders which have canines, uh, simply something that might provide you with inspiration, spark inspiration, um, bookmark, like remark, do no matter it takes to indicate the algorithm that you simply like that content material and be very strict on that. So that you begin there.
Then you are going to come throughout creators that You are that you simply’re admiring and also you, okay. I actually preferred that. I wish to do a few of that and simply begin paying attention to kinds, proper? Um, perhaps it is like a skit. Perhaps it is like a nonetheless picture with textual content. Perhaps it is a three second, um, video on loop with texts, one thing.
And then you definitely simply need a bunch of buckets of content material. Okay. So you have obtained that in a Google doc, after which you are going to discover the precise creators that you’ll comply with. And these are folks that you’ll type of emulate in a means. Um, after which go to social blade. I exploit social blade religiously.
I’ve a ten a month account, and you are going to search for these creators and save them and monitor their follower development. As a result of, you recognize, we talked about, you recognize, Followers are meaningless as a result of the algorithm pushes it. No, they don’t seem to be. However views are meaningless as a result of in case your views aren’t changing to followers, then you definitely’re actually getting nothing.
They are surely. Proper? Yeah. So go discover the creators which can be hacking many chat or which can be hacking an attention-grabbing name to motion. Are they, are they saying, you recognize, learn the remark? Are they saying hyperlink in bio or they’re saying remark the phrase X, Y, or Z. So many chat is triggered, see what they’re doing after which comply with their follower development.
So that you, so you possibly can weed out those that simply have self-importance metrics and hone in on those which can be truly rising their follower base, proper? How are they utilizing tales? Are they posting a number of tales a day? One a day, one per week, and simply begin copying them. After which after you have a base constructed and every thing I simply defined, you possibly can do a begin in a day and then you definitely simply must cease caring.
About, uh, no matter you publish and like, I am like, everybody cares what folks take into consideration them. I do not care what you say. Everybody does. There’s simply, it is a spectrum. Proper. Um, I began a model new account. I did not wish to use my private account and that was simply out of delight and ego. I did not need folks judging me that I went to highschool with, you recognize, however truthfully I had 400 followers there.
The distinction between 400 and nil is meaningless. So I began a model new account and I simply handled it as each single person who sees these dumb movies. They do not know about me. They do not care about me. So I do not care about them. I am simply gonna, that is my playground, my sandbox. After which I simply take every thing I discovered from the folks on the very same platform and simply begin throwing spaghetti on the wall.
Um, CapCut. I might get CapCut Professional, 10 a month. Uh, it has a characteristic the place it’s going to routinely take away pauses. Uh, Descript, the Mac app. It is actually good. It is even higher for eradicating pauses. Inferior to CapCut for modifying. Um, I put auto captions on every thing and study hooks, proper? In case you see a video that goes viral, write down what the hook was.
And how are you going to copy that very same hook? And you don’t need any lifeless house in your video, no lifeless house, no white house. And, um, all else equal, the algorithm will desire longer movies. Um, all of it comes down to not, uh, like common view proportion. Common seconds watched, proper? So I would reasonably have, um, um, a 90 second video on Instagram that folks watch 50 % of, so 45 seconds, then, um, a 30 second video that folks watch one hundred percent of, and the algorithm will desire that.
Despite the fact that they’re solely watching half of it, you are holding them on the platform for 50 % longer. So, um, however that is laborious, proper? It is simpler to place out one thing that is 10 seconds and catchy. So begin there. However then as you, as you’re feeling extra assured in your kinds and in your content material, then attempt to make them longer as a result of the longer it’s, If it is top quality, the upper likelihood it’s going to have of going viral.
Jared: You have talked about hooks a few instances. What’s a hook from a excessive stage and what makes an excellent hook?
Chris: Okay. So it took me in all probability, it took me in all probability 40 movies to even take into consideration hooks. So in case you’re listening to this, you may be means forward of the sport than I used to be. Um, after which it took me about 150 movies to seek out my hook, which I exploit in virtually each video now.
Um, So each single sentence you say must be engineered to get them to the following sentence. So my hook that works the most effective right now for me is take a look at this freaking man proper right here. Okay. These days, virtually each video I put up begins with that hook. Take a look at this freaking factor proper right here. Take a look at this freaking lady proper right here.
Take a look at this freaking man proper right here. And it is engineered to get them to the following sentence. Okay. What, what am I ? What am I searching for? After which I, and I break my very own rule on a regular basis. Trigger like I stated, it takes 5 minutes. If I have been to really take an hour to script out my movies, I would in all probability have the next hit price.
Um, and so there must be one thing visually interesting occurring. Ideally that does not, does not must be the case, but it surely’s similar to good copywriting. You simply cannot lose them, you recognize? So you bought it. It is similar to, you have obtained a hook after which a re hook, hook, re hook, hook, preserve them hanging so long as you possibly can.
And. You simply obtained to experiment with a bunch of stuff. Um, there’s one man on Instagram that posted movies about actually good hooks. Uh, it is known as one thing viral. I gotta discover it, however, uh, viral video membership, viral video. membership on Instagram. He has some actually good movies the place he lists out good hooks and I simply begin attempting these, like one other good one is, um, You guys must see what I discovered.
Jared: Yeah, I’ve seen that one. That is nice. That is nice. Um, Uh, another query on that. It feels like you might be scripting most or all of what you are recording. Is that true? Is that vital? Have you ever tried not scripting? And why have you ever landed the place you have landed?
Chris: No, I, I do not script hardly something.
Jared: So that you, these hooks all are simply type of coming out of form and out of nature and out of an understanding of what your content material does and the way it pertains to your hook.
Chris: Yeah. So at this level, the hooks are intentional, proper? So you possibly can name that half a script trigger it’s deliberate, but it surely took me a very long time to get there. Um, however every thing else, it, I am similar to, I do not know. I, the one analogy I might make, um, is like, so Taylor Swift, proper? She, she’s written a whole bunch of songs and he or she’s revealed a fraction of them.
And I am not very musically inclined and I’ve by no means understood that. Proper. I simply by no means, I am unable to wrap my head round it. Trigger it is not simply the phrases, it is obtained the music, you bought to tie it in. You’ve the bridge, you have obtained a number of choruses versus, and I simply by no means understood that. Um, however that is how she sees the world, proper?
She’s on a tour bus and he or she seems to be exterior and sees a pig and he or she’s like, Oh, that is attention-grabbing. And she or he makes all these connections and he or she’ll, she’ll write a track in 5 minutes. And I see the world like an entrepreneur. Like I have been. So curious and so I am I will see issues actually quick, proper? And in order that’s an vital a part of it and it comes again to love the fervour verse Revenue argument, proper?
Comply with your ardour, comply with the revenue. It is neither one. Um, in my view, revenue shouldn’t be scalable. Ardour is, uh, so it’s a must to begin being profitable. After which after you have, uh, then you possibly can actually comply with your ardour and that may be infinitely scalable. So my ardour shouldn’t be this enterprise or that enterprise.
It is simply enterprise. And so. That helps me see issues actually quick. So whoever’s listening, no matter your ardour is, in case you’re about to make an Instagram account or develop your Instagram account on one thing that you do not actually really feel, you recognize, a variety of, or one thing that you simply’re not likely keen about, you are gonna, you are going to have author’s block on a regular basis.
And I, that simply cannot work, proper? It, so it is gotta be one thing that you may actually get vitality from studying about. So you possibly can simply crank out, uh, a variety of content material.
Jared: Chris, this has been a very, uh, good tactically, uh, inspiring podcast interview. Thanks for approaching and sharing. Thanks. Nonetheless blows my thoughts simply the way you’re in a position to put collectively a lot so shortly that, uh, is, is, is simply so extremely nicely obtained by folks.
It is actually, um, it is downright inspiring. So thanks for sharing so many particulars and so many suggestions. Uh, I believe my greatest takeaway was while you shared that Fb creates probably the most loyal viewers out of everyone. That is, that is fascinating. Anyhow, Chris, thanks for popping out. The place can folks, I imply, comply with together with what you are doing?
The place can folks type of go and study extra about what you are doing?
Chris: Yeah, I am a, I am the Kerner workplace on all social channels spelled like my final title, Okay O E R N E R. And all of it lives at TKO pod. com as within the Kerner workplace podcast. So
Jared: that is nice. Chris, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us, uh, a lot continued success.
And we’ll speak to you once more quickly. All proper. Thanks.
