There are solely a handful of Indian movies that defy the standard description and invite the audiences right into a world that may solely be understood by means of expertise fairly than clarification. One such movie is Payal Kapadia’s ‘ALL WE IMAGINE AS LIGHT’. Set in opposition to the bustling but remoted backdrop of Mumbai, this cinematic triumph transcends narrative boundaries to create one thing profound and deeply private. By a shocking mixture of magical realism and grounded storytelling, it delves into themes of affection, loss, identification, and self-discovery. Aside from the storytelling, the cinematography by Ranabir Das, elevates the movie to an ethereal realm, capturing the stark contrasts of Mumbai’s city panorama with poetic finesse. The digicam lingers on the town’s chaos and quiet, utilizing gentle and shadow to reflect the interior worlds of its characters.
The creative brilliance has not gone unnoticed, as ‘ALL WE IMAGINE AS LIGHT‘ has garnered widespread acclaim and a plethora of prestigious accolades on the worldwide competition circuit. For Payal and Ranabir, this roaring success is one thing that they by no means imagined, as their focus was solely on telling an genuine and deeply private story. After successful the Grand Prix accolade at this yr’s Cannes, the movie has solidified its place as a landmark in modern Indian cinema. It’s so good to see an Indian filmmaker garnering a lot success on the international degree, and changing into the first-ever feminine filmmaker from India to obtain a Finest Director nod on the Golden Globes. Not too long ago, I had the fortune of speaking to Payal Kapadia, and DOP Ranabir Das, about their movie and the way they created such a powerful world the place moments of magical realism are dropped at life by surreal imagery.
Payal Kapadia on the Cannes Movie Competition (Picture Credit score: Getty Photos)
Right here’s the FULL INTERVIEW:
Aayush Sharma: Congratulations on the unimaginable win for ‘All We Think about As Gentle’. The previous few days will need to have been a whirlwind of feelings, from press engagements to screenings, culminating on this well-deserved triumph. How does it really feel to see all of the exhausting work and fervour behind this movie being celebrated on such a grand stage? Has the magnitude of this achievement really sunk in but?
Payal Kapadia: It’s been actually greater than we ever imagined for the movie. After we have been in Cannes, it already felt so massive. Each time one thing else occurs, we really feel like we wish to pinch ourselves. We labored on the movie for a very long time—particularly the 2 of us (Payal and Ranabir Das), since we write collectively as properly. It’s been a challenge we’ve labored on, on and off, for nearly six or seven years, and intensely over the previous 4 years. Generally, you’re feeling prefer it’s over, and that itself feels so bizarre.
Aayush Sharma: The town of Mumbai performs such a central position in your movie. How did you method portraying Mumbai not simply as a setting however as a personality in itself, with its heartbeat and tales?
Payal Kapadia: I feel it’s as a result of, you understand while you make a movie—or no less than once I make a movie—it’s form of like a response to your environment. What forces itself into the movie is one thing that issues you or one thing you see on a regular basis, and also you get bothered by it. The contradictions of Mumbai, I feel, are very a lot a part of our each day life. For the previous 5 years, we’ve been residing right here collectively. On one aspect, you see everyone shifting right here—particularly within the movie trade—as a result of all our associates from FTII additionally moved to Mumbai. In some senses, it’s form of liberating as a result of you will have your individual form of freedom right here to do issues. However it’s additionally a metropolis that may be very merciless. It’s a really costly metropolis, not very comfy to navigate or journey in day-after-day, contemplating the period of time it takes. There’s additionally fixed gentrification going down. It’s a metropolis that’s all the time in a state of change as a result of the individuals who include a variety of problem can be very simply made to go away. We particularly noticed that through the COVID time. It’s additionally a metropolis that’s geographically altering as a result of it’s like an island metropolis that turned connected to the peninsula. And now, land reclamation can also be going down. So even bodily, the town is like an amoeba. I used to be very serious about all this stuff in regards to the metropolis, and a few of it makes us very indignant additionally.
Ranabir Das: Typically, Mumbai is a metropolis the place so many movies are shot. However in only a few movies can we truly see the town. We simply wished to doc some senses of now—a time now—that can stay someplace.
Payal Kapadia: As a result of I feel that Mohammad Ali Street, that space, may even sooner or later get gentrified and be shot. And I really feel like we wished to additionally keep in mind completely different, completely different locations.
Aayush Sharma: The shift from the bustling city panorama of Mumbai to the serene coastal village marks a big tonal change. How did you conceptualize this transition, and what does it signify within the bigger context of the story?
Ranabir Das: Properly, on some ranges, it’s very fundamental. Like, we simply wished a shift, a change in season. Yeah. A bit little bit of time has passed by between the earlier occasions and what’s to observe. In that sense, the biggest shift, I feel, is that the primary half could be very cloudy, and the second half could be very brilliant solar. The colour palette additionally shifts within the course of. However we wished the second half to have a barely completely different feeling of time as properly. We wished it to be only one lengthy day, this complete second half. So we wished to really feel the time slightly bit extra. We wished to be slightly nearer to the characters. Within the metropolis, we all the time included the town slightly bit within the background or in some aircraft. There’s all the time some presence of the town creeping in. However over right here, we wished to be bodily nearer to the characters and be with them extra.
Payal Kapadia: The kind of this village, however our intention no less than was to someplace keep away from that an excessive amount of, okay, and being with the character. Yeah, like that’s why most—no less than what we tried, I don’t know the way a lot of it got here by means of—however a variety of time, Riku would bleach out among the background when it was a really extensive shot, for instance, as a result of the daylight wouldn’t form of, you understand, simply stick with that cliche of a fairly place. One thing that, you understand, that warmth—I don’t know in case you are from Delhi, however I assume in Delhi additionally, in the summertime, that very high solar is like, it’s not very nice. In order that feeling, we wished to form of get. I feel, yeah, as a result of Mumbai appears to be like so completely different, I feel that distinction has been a lot.
Kani Kusruti as Prabha and Divya Prabha as Any in ‘All We Think about As Gentle’ (Picture Credit score: Spirit Media)
Aayush Sharma: The movie opens with a documentary-style montage of avenue scenes and migrant voices. How did your background in documentary filmmaking form this method, and what was your intent behind mixing this model with fiction?
Payal Kapadia: You already know, like, I feel each of us are very process-driven filmmakers. So a variety of time, we find yourself doing a variety of analysis and, you understand, not even simply analysis—after we go for location scouting, you sit, you chat with individuals, you will have chai, you eat, or we simply meet individuals for the sake of, you understand, understanding issues higher. Whereas doing that, we have been getting a variety of completely different tales from individuals—individuals have been telling us, and our associates have been additionally telling us. So we wished to maintain the essence of these conversations in some way within the movie, although we didn’t know the way. I feel it was the identical with our earlier movie too—like, a variety of the stuff that’s there comes out later due to interactions with actuality. You’ll be able to think about some issues, you write sure issues, you will have a script, and every little thing, after which actuality comes and says, ‘Hey,’ which is sweet. I actually get pleasure from that, and I feel we actually get pleasure from that. So we wished to maintain a sense of these conversations and random interactions. We additionally felt like in some way it gave a form of symphony of the town, with all of the individuals right here. It’s a metropolis made up of individuals from completely different elements of the state, and completely different elements of the nation, and also you hear so many languages in Mumbai. It’s a really various area. So we wished to have a jhalak of that within the movie.
Ranabir Das: Additionally, we felt that it was one thing that was treating it like there are such a lot of tales floating round, and we’re coming into considered one of them. Only one factor we’re delving into deeper, after which that fiction additionally turns into slightly bit extra actual after that.
Aayush Sharma: The movie is devoted to your grandmother and your good friend who’s a nurse. How did their lives and experiences encourage the story of All We Think about as Gentle, and what private connections formed your method to telling this story?
Payal Kapadia: For me, my grandmother’s story has been a nagging string for all my movies to this point. Each movie has this copy in it. All my quick movies have it. Principally, when she was in her 90s, she began dropping her reminiscence. So, I instructed her, simply to form of hold the thoughts shifting, ‘Why don’t you write a diary?’ So, she began writing the diary. And in some way, within the diary, this husband of hers used to maintain showing. Now, she was 97 or 96 or one thing like this. Her husband died when she was 50. So, all these years, she was single. However right now, it was he who was popping out, coming in her goals and coming virtually like an individual, like a ghost, and was annoying her. So, she was very irritated. I feel she didn’t get together with him very a lot. So, I used to be considering quite a bit about that, like this sort of factor that a variety of ladies round me—like they’re unbiased, they’re residing alone, working jobs, financially unbiased—however these males don’t appear to go. So, I used to be considering quite a bit about that, and like, form of, you understand, that our concepts in India, we’ve to have a look at our feminism in a manner, preserving these sorts of issues in thoughts. At the very least for me, that is my perspective. Everyone has their very own. So, like, it’s these lingering males who we don’t need them to outline us, however they’re there. Now, what to do? So, that’s form of what this movie is about. Like, this Prabha additionally, you understand, form of attempting to go away this chap who simply popped up out of nowhere. So, yeah, that’s it.
For the nurse, she was very open to telling me all in regards to the early…like, all these things about studying in regards to the placenta, how their coaching was. So, that’s what bought me into the nursing career—it’s due to all this. She used to inform me about the way it was for them after they have been college students and, you understand, the form of issues on a day-to-day foundation, the way it was. So, I bought very…like, she was very open to maintain telling me. I’d WhatsApp her saying, ‘Is that this clinically right?’ and all that. Very beneficiant with that—consulting all the data and the nursing tales. Many nurses have helped on this, and we did so many interviews, however she was one of many first individuals I spoke to.
Aayush Sharma: Riku, I wanted to grasp, and clarify to me like I’m a 10-year-old. For you, attending to know in regards to the characters, struggles, and every little thing else, play a big position in utilizing sure visible strategies, like lighting and all.
Ranabir Das: Sure, completely. It’s not solely about what a personality is feeling or going by means of this present day but additionally in regards to the bigger imaginative and prescient of how a director desires the story to be instructed. So, with every challenge I undertake, I make a aware effort to be as true and trustworthy to the essence of that challenge as doable. It’s about guaranteeing that the character’s journey, feelings, and experiences resonate with the general narrative and the director’s artistic imaginative and prescient.
Aayush Sharma: The vast majority of the movie is in Malayalam, reflecting the fact that many nurses in Mumbai come from Kerala. As somebody who didn’t develop up talking the language, how did you navigate the problem of authentically portraying this linguistic and cultural context? What steps did you are taking to make sure that the nuances of Malayalam-speaking characters have been captured with depth and accuracy?
Payal Kapadia: I’ve to say, it was robust, and took further time to get this proper. However I had Robin Pleasure and Naseem, my dialogue writers, who’re each from Kerala and likewise filmmakers. I truly met Robin at FTII, and I’ve all the time preferred his writing and quick movies. I wished to work with him as a result of I felt we related properly emotionally, politically, and by way of our social contexts. So, I introduced him on board virtually two years in the past, in 2022. He then started rewriting the dialogues primarily based on how we had mentioned the characters. For instance, we determined that Anu can be from Palakkad, so we adjusted her accent and even integrated her particular slang. We additionally labored on how the characters would talk on WhatsApp, utilizing that Gen Z model of texting. Robin and Naseem really devoted an entire yr to rewriting and refining the dialogues.
After we labored with the actors, we’d re-examine the dialogues collectively. The actors would ship their strains, and we’d take heed to the recordings to listen to how they sounded. This course of was important as a result of, in any other case, how would I direct in a language I don’t totally perceive, proper? We did a variety of rehearsals to assist me get a way of what they have been saying and the way it felt. With Robin’s experience, he’d level out if one thing didn’t sound fairly proper, which was extremely useful. Having somebody like him by my aspect made the entire course of smoother and extra genuine.
Aayush Sharma: All We Think about as Gentle is a deeply political movie, but a lot of the dialogue round it focuses on its aesthetics or limits its politics to an Indian context, overlooking its common relevance. Have you ever seen this, and the way do you’re feeling about such interpretations?
Ranabir Das: We’ve tried in our personal manner, although I’m unsure how efficiently it comes by means of or to what extent we’ve been proper or not. However we’ve tried to incorporate some components. I feel that, usually, any movie you watch is political, whether or not the filmmakers meant it to be or not. You’ll be able to learn into it, and also you’ll discover issues which can be, in some methods, political. In that sense, there are positively facets of this movie which can be extra immediately political, however every little thing else additionally turns into one thing to interpret and perceive. In the end, everybody can have their very own interpretation.
Payal Kapadia: Yeah, true. However I feel some issues are so deeply rooted for us, just like the context of the papers and the connection, or among the little issues we’ve stored within the movie that we haven’t even subtitled. I really feel like there’s all the time this stability between explaining issues and permitting individuals to really feel them. And we’re all the time scuffling with this stability—how a lot to clarify or for which viewers. So, on the finish of the day, that is the stability we’ve discovered for this movie. We’ll see the way it goes with the subsequent one. However yeah, many individuals don’t totally perceive our nation. There are such a lot of issues right here, so many contexts, so many layers. Some individuals even ask me if we converse “Indian,” and I’m like, no! So, what can we do? Even inside the nation, the humanities usually symbolize only one voice and one opinion. Interpretation will all the time be completely different. I feel even inside our nation, a movie about Delhi can be seen otherwise by somebody who’s by no means been there or lived there. All of this stuff are true, and considered one of my targets was to keep away from falling into clichés about nursing, the characters, or anything. They’re simply individuals. There’s nothing you’ll be able to label as clichéd about their identification. That was one thing I assumed quite a bit about, however once more, that’s the great thing about cinema. You create one thing, then you definately see how individuals react and be taught from it, understanding what you probably did and all the time striving to do higher, I assume.
Divya Prabha and Hridhu Haroon in a nonetheless from ‘All We Imagined As Gentle’ (Photograph Credit score: Spirit Media)
Aayush Sharma: You might be fairly energetic on social media, particularly on Twitter. Not too long ago, you talked in regards to the mistaken side ratio in theatres. What occurred there?
Payal Kapadia: Don’t make me cry. please. (laughs) However since I posted it on Twitter, no less than persons are speaking about it. I’ve seen that persons are going, and the courageous ones are stopping the projection. I don’t perceive that—so many movies have to be shot in 1.85:1 no less than.
Aayush Sharma: Mr. Hansal Mehta, the director, mentioned on social media {that a} film like ‘All We Think about As Gentle’ is failing to get help from streaming platforms. Was that true? and what did you be taught from that course of?
Ranabir Das: In our case, there may be some curiosity from streaming platforms that producers are .
Payal Kapadia: However the issue is that in our case, since we’re releasing in so many nations, we are able to’t do a global sale. This makes streaming platforms a bit hesitant, I assume—it’s a problem for them as all of them need worldwide attain. And we actually wished a launch time. We wished the movie to be in cinemas for an extended length, in order that was one of many factors I put forth—what I might say on this matter. However the different factor you’re declaring, distribution is an actual drawback. This yr, there have been so many movies from India at Cannes. Administrators of Indian origin, my batchmate Maisa Malli’s movie was there in ACID. It’s a very nice movie, and I feel it was at MAMI as properly. We’re getting consideration within the information and every little thing, however there have been so many movies there. There was Sister of Midnight, there was Santosh, and Ladies Will Be Ladies, which I feel has performed fairly properly however didn’t get a cinema launch. So I feel we should always discover a strategy to watch our personal nation’s movies within the cinema, even when they’re small. Why can’t we get one slot a day for these movies? Why aren’t exhibitors keen to take that problem? Anyway, they’ve multiplexes, to allow them to present the large films, and in the event that they present one smaller movie as soon as a month, it could possibly be superb. The best way she makes movies is unimaginable, so on her personal, and the movies are unbelievable. I feel so many individuals would get pleasure from watching them, like schoolchildren. They may do outings and take all the youngsters from some colleges to the cinema. The cinemas might provide discounted costs too.
Ranabir: I really feel that these sorts of interactive issues could possibly be a strategy to hold individuals engaged from a younger age and encourage important considering. Cinema can do this as properly. And relating to your preliminary query about OTT, it’s changing into an more and more tough market usually. When it first got here in, it appeared like there was scope for unbiased cinema. There was additionally some amount of cash that filmmakers and producers might entry.
Picture Credit score: Rediff
Aayush Sharma: Each the movies that you’re a a part of are mainly unbiased movies. For All We Think about As Gentle, you noticed quite a bit backing developing after the film gained at Cannes. Then, Rana Daggubatti bought concerned in it. As somebody who’s deeply concerned on this film, did you see any form of distinction in how the film was taken to theatres or distributors as soon as an individual like Rana bought into the method?
Ranabir Das: Sure, I imply, he additionally has a distribution firm, so in that sense, he is aware of the exhibitors, he understands the market. I don’t know if it’s merely due to his begin, however yeah, as a distributor, he positively has some quantity of expertise and information on this space.
Payal Kapadia: I feel it actually helped us as a result of he has, particularly within the south, a variety of connections. They arrive from a household of distribution, and he’s additionally placing weight behind the movie. See, we don’t have the funds for large posters or to place it on a bus, and even to have it within the cinema. There weren’t any extra conventional strategies like that. So, speaking to the press and having him there to help was form of our strategy to attain out.
Aayush Sharma: You’ve beforehand highlighted the challenges of securing funding for unbiased movies in India. Might you share extra about your experiences navigating this panorama and the way it formed the journey of bringing ‘All We Think about as Gentle’ to life?
Ranabir Das: I imply, initially, it was a bit scary as a result of we didn’t truly know if the movie would ever get made. However our producers gave us some quantity of confidence, and we confronted a couple of rejections as properly. Nonetheless, as we began getting extra funds and the script started growing additional, we began receiving more cash. With that, we felt extra assured, and we realized that it was a system that helped us.
Payal Kapadia: One factor we discovered all through this course of is what a producer really is. At the very least within the West, a producer isn’t somebody who has their very own cash or an organization with funds, however fairly, they’re those who can form your challenge in a manner that means that you can safe funding from different sources. It’s actually a collaboration. They’ll learn the challenge and, in the event that they consider in it, they gained’t simply agree with you—they are going to belief their opinion and provide their help. It’s necessary to search out somebody whose judgment you belief and who additionally believes in you, and who will say, “Okay, let’s do that. No matter occurs, we’ll make it occur.” We obtained a variety of that form of motivation, even from our producer right here in India. He did his finest to get the movie off the bottom, discovering the best individuals for us to work with, and we ended up with a unbelievable crew of collaborators. All of that’s what makes the movie what it’s—not only one particular person, however the collective effort of many individuals coming collectively.
Aayush Sharma: I had the pleasure of interviewing Kani Kusruti, and he or she instructed me that you simply (Payal) had envisioned her as Anu. So, how did the change occur?
Payal Kapadia: Yeah, again then, once I was nonetheless a scholar, I wrote about two pages of an idea for the movie, a free concept about two associates who have been nurses. However I hadn’t performed a lot analysis at the moment. It was only a fundamental thought, and I wished to make a 20-minute movie about it. At the moment, I had seen her quick movie Reminiscences of a Machine, and I actually preferred her efficiency in it, so we wished to solid her as Anu. Nonetheless, I made a decision to not pursue it for FTII as a result of I felt there was nonetheless quite a bit I wanted to grasp earlier than making this movie. I didn’t really feel like I had the best connection on the time, so I let it go. After that, I began researching, assembly extra individuals, gathering tales, and finally realized it needed to be a characteristic movie. And that, in fact, takes time. So I’d work on it, then depart it, come again to it, and make one other movie in between. All through all this, I stored sending Kanni the script.
I assumed I won’t be capable of do it at a youthful age. Each of us had gotten older, and we have been the identical age, so I puzzled, what might I do? However then she mentioned, “Let me attempt for the older one.” Nonetheless, I feel I used to be so fixated on her being Anu that it was initially exhausting for me to simply accept that she might play the older model. However she’s simply such a tremendous artist, a beautiful actor, and extremely hardworking. It’s superb. She is so inspiring, and I really feel so fortunate to have met her.
Ranabir Das: You already know, for Anu, we had seen Divya in ‘Declaration’. Yeah, yeah. And she or he was taking part in an older character in that movie, so we initially considered her as Prabha.
The solid and crew of ‘All We Think about As Gentle’ (Picture Credit score: Getty Photos)
Aayush Sharma: The movie makes use of magical realism and lyrical components within the second half. How do you see this mixing of realism and fantasy as a strategy to discover the interior worlds of your characters?
Payal Kapadia: Properly, I wished to go from this very day-in-the-life model of metropolis individuals, utilizing extensive pictures of a metropolis with a shaky digicam, to go deeper and deeper, till we reached such an in depth level that we might seize the feel of the pores and skin, the hair on the physique, and the grain of sand. We wished to method it as if we have been utilizing a microscope, the place we first present a large shot after which funnel right down to one thing as small because the grain of sand on a person’s physique. The transition from that vérité model to one thing like magical realism felt pure, changing into extra inside. I used to be considering quite a bit about categorical want, as in our society, it’s not one thing you speak about. How do you say “I really like you” in English? How do you say it in the event you haven’t mentioned it but? It’s tough. We will’t categorical this stuff simply. So I assumed, cinematically, how will she hear it, or what’s going to she say? Cinema permits us to talk with out talking. I wished to discover a language in our personal strategy to speak about sure issues, and this gave the impression to be the best manner, a magical one. I used to be considering quite a bit about how this had been performed up to now.
In Rajasthan, Gujarat, or Karnataka on the western coast, people tales usually inform tales about longing and the lads who go away as retailers. There’s a variety of journey and many ladies’s tales about how they can’t speak to their husbands. One well-known one is Duvida, the place the husband comes again as a ghost, and he or she falls in love with him, however finally, he will get caught. There are tales the place the person turns into a tree or a thief. Sangam poetry additionally makes use of nature to speak about longing. I used to be occupied with all this stuff, in addition to a brief story by Márquez I learn the place a person washes up in a village. Whereas he’s handed out, the ladies begin saying issues like, ‘Oh, he’s so good-looking,’ or, ‘His household will need to have made massive doorways in the home as a result of he’s so tall,’ creating their very own tales. Their wishes are projected onto the lifeless man. So I used to be on this concept of not with the ability to converse, and the way we begin projecting issues and discover a strategy to launch that ache. In my head, all of it simply made sense.
Payal Kapadia’s ‘ALL WE IMAGINE AS LIGHT’ is taking part in worldwide.
